22nd January 2023
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Did Jesus Really Get Crucified?

Made by Cariti in Introductions and Leaving

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Seen 22nd January 2023
22nd January 2023, 06:48 PM

Quote:
With this post, marks the end of your boy Cariti,
it is officially goodbye from me. But not without opening all of your eyes first.
I really wanted to open y'all eyes since oppressing is all this WEBsite does as well as making everyone be supportive of Tyranny. Therefore, I cannot support this WEBsite 100%
I made and took 100% out of my own time to, collaborate all of this so YOU didn't have to. Collaborate what? The facts. Enjoy!

There is nothing strange about the Muslims rejecting this idea, because the Qur’aan in which they believe and accept what it tells them definitively states that that did not happen, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And because of their saying (in boast), ‘We killed Messiah ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allaah,’ — but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but it appeared so to them the resemblance of ‘Eesa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man)], and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not [i.e. ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)]”

[al-Nisa’ 4:157]

Rather the problem rests with the Christians for whom the doctrine of the crucifixion and redemption has become a central issue, so much so that the cross is the symbol of their religion.

It is strange that they differ concerning the form of this cross which indicates their confusion about this fabrication.

There are differences between their Gospels and their historians regarding everything that has to do with the story of the crucifixion.

They differ concerning the timing of the Last Supper, which according to them was one of the events in the lead-up to the crucifixion. They differ concerning the traitor who led (the Romans) to Christ – did that happen at least one day before the Last Supper, as narrated by Luke, or during it, after Christ gave him the piece of bread, as narrated by John?

Was Christ the one who carried his cross, as John says, as was customary with one who was going to be crucified, according to Nottingham, or was it Simon of Cyrene, as the other three Gospels state?

They say that two thieves were crucified alongside Christ, one on his right and one on his left, so what was the attitude of these two towards the Messiah who was being crucified, as they claim?

Did the thieves scorn him for being crucified, and say that his Lord had abandoned him and left him to his enemies? Or did only one of them scorn him, and did the other rebuke the one who scorned him?

At what hour did this crucifixion take place – was it in the third hour, as Mark says, or in the sixth as John says?

What happened after the so-called crucifixion?

Mark says that the veil of the Temple was torn from top to bottom. Matthew adds that the earth shook and rocks crumbled, and many of the saints rose from their graves and entered the holy city, appearing to many. Luke says that the sun turned dark, and the veil of the Temple was torn in the middle, and when the centurion saw what had happened, he glorified God and said, “Truly this man was righteous.”

But John does not know anything about all that!

These are not the only weak elements and indications of falseness in the story of the crucifixion, as narrated in the gospels. Rather the one who studies the details of the gospel narratives of this story will, with the least effort, notice the great differences in the details of this story, which are such that it is impossible to believe it all or even any part of it!

How desperate are the failed attempts to fill this gap and conceal the faults of this distorted book. Allaah indeed spoke the truth when He said in His Book which He has preserved (interpretation of the meaning):

“Do they not then consider the Qur’aan carefully? Had it been from other than Allaah, they would surely, have found therein many a contradiction”

[al-Nisa’ 4:82]

Apart from the fact that the gospel accounts are not sound, and their authors themselves admit that they were not revealed to the Messiah in this form, nor were they even written during his lifetime, none of the witnesses were present at the events to which they testify, as Mark says:

“Then everyone deserted him and fled.”

Mark 14:50 – New International Version (NIV)

Because these events were not witnessed by anyone who narrated them, there is a great deal of room for imagination and poetic licence.

We will complete our discussion of the fable of the crucifixion of Christ (peace be upon him) by looking at what the Gospels say about the Messiah’s prediction that he would be saved from death:

On one occasion the Pharisees and chief priests sent the guards to arrest him and he said to them:

“I am with you for only a short time, and then I go to the one who sent me. You will look for me, but you will not find me, and where I am, you cannot come.”

John 7:33-34 – NIV

Elsewhere he says:

“Once more Jesus said to them, ‘I am going away, and you will look for me, and you will die in your sin. Where I go, you cannot come.’

This made the Jews ask, ‘Will he kill himself? Is that why he says, “Where I go, you cannot come”?’

But he continued, ‘You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.

I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins.’

‘Who are you?’ they asked.

‘Just what I have been claiming all along,’ Jesus replied. ‘I have much to say in judgment of you. But he who sent me is reliable, and what I have heard from him I tell the world.’

They did not understand that he was telling them about his Father.

So Jesus said, ‘When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me.

The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him.’”

John 8:21-29 – NIV

Then at the end he tells them again:

“For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'”

Matthew 23:39 – NIV, also Luke 13:35

The Messiah, as these texts and others show, was certain that God would never hand him over to his enemies, and would never forsake him.

“But a time is coming, and has come, when you will be scattered, each to his own home. You will leave me all alone. Yet I am not alone, for my Father is with me.

I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.”

John 16:32-33

Because of that the passers by, and indeed everyone who attended the so-called crucifixion, mocked the Messiah, as the writer of this Gospel says (although that could not have been true):

“Those who passed by hurled insults at him, shaking their heads

and saying, ‘You who are going to destroy the temple and build it in three days, save yourself! Come down from the cross, if you are the Son of God!’

In the same way the chief priests, the teachers of the law and the elders mocked him.

‘He saved others,’ they said, ‘but he can't save himself! He's the King of Israel! Let him come down now from the cross, and we will believe in him.

He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, “I am the Son of God.”’

In the same way the robbers who were crucified with him also heaped insults on him.”

Matthew 27:39-44 – NIV

But it seems that Jesus’ certainty that God was with him began to waver, according to the distorted Gospel narrative, (although that could not have been true):

“Then Jesus went with his disciples to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to them, ‘Sit here while I go over there and pray.’

He took Peter and the two sons of Zebedee along with him, and he began to be sorrowful and troubled.

Then he said to them, ‘My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me.’

Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, ‘My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.’

Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping.



He went away a second time and prayed, ‘My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done.’

When he came back, he again found them sleeping, …

So he left them and went away once more and prayed the third time, saying the same thing.

Then he returned to the disciples and said to them, ‘Are you still sleeping and resting? Look, the hour is near, and the Son of Man is betrayed into the hands of sinners’”

Matthew 26:36-45 – NIV

Luke describes the scene and says:

“And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground.

When he rose from prayer and went back to the disciples, he found them asleep, exhausted from sorrow.

‘Why are you sleeping?’ he asked them. ‘Get up and pray so that you will not fall into temptation.’”

Luke 22:44-46 – NIV

Because of this mockery of the message of Christ – according to their claims – and because Christ thought that God was with him and would never forsake him, then it follows that the writer who fabricated this dramatic scene would end it with a vision of the despair of the Messiah and his feelings of being abandoned by God – exalted be Allaah far above what the wrongdoers say. The fabricator says:

“From the sixth hour until the ninth hour darkness came over all the land.

About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, ‘Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?’--which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

Matthew 27:38-47 – NIV

See also Mark 15:34

If we understand what this story means when subjected to criticism, the same will apply to the doctrine of redemption and sacrifice that is based on it.

With regard to the Christian doctrine of salvation, see also question no. 6

And Allaah is the Source of strength and the guide to the Straight Path, and there is no Lord but He.

Islam Q&A

How can we find evidence of Jesus’ resurrection?
Good luck with that.

I find it hard to prove he even existed. There is a guy on YouTube named “godless engineer” check him out if you are interested in arguments against his existence and therefore the inability to have been crucified.

You cannot prove Jesus was not cruficied as Daniel 8 14 prophecy that says 2300 days the sanctuary shalll be cleansed proves Jesus was crucified in DA 9 Gabriel explains to Daniel that from Jerusalemn rebuilt to Jesus batised was 69 weeks

this prophecy given 650 years before was accomplished to the very year . Then it says after 3 years and a half Messiah is cut off and crucified Is 53 says xritten 650 bc that Jesus would die for the sins of the people . In fact from the book of Genesis and the animal sacrifice it is an example of how God prepared the way for Jesus coming and death onthe cross

Is there a valid historical proof that Jesus was crucified?
Yes. There is valid historical proof that Jesus was crucified. Of course, the word “proof” is sketchy, especially to people with a background in mathematics, but according to the same standards that are applied to every other figure or event in ancient history, there is as much certainty that Jesus was crucified as there is that Caesar crossed the Rubicon.

No, wait - I take that back. There is greater certainty that Jesus was crucified than there is that Caesar crossed the Rubicon. There are more historical references to the crucifixion of Jesus, those sources are substantially closer to the ev

How was Jesus crucified?

“The literary sources for the Roman period contain numerous descriptions of crucifixion but few exact details as to how the condemned were affixed to the cross. Unfortunately, the direct physical evidence here is also limited to one right calcaneum (heel bone) pierced by an 11.5 cm iron nail with traces of wood at both ends.”

Iashoa of Natzrat (Jesus of Nazareth) was crucified in the year 30 A.D, likely falling on the fourteenth of Nisan (נִיסָן), April 7 according to the Gregorian calendar. This also would have coincided with the Friday Passover festival.


Exactly forty years before the destruct

Who cares if it was crucified or not? The goal of killing it was accomplished either way, so what does it matter?

As long as it was successfully killed and destroyed, no problem! Its death was all that mattered.

But perhaps a more brutal punishment would have been more appropriate, such as drawing and quartering it; live evisceration (cutting it open and disemboweling it in front of its disciples while it was still alive); burning it at the stake until it was dead and very crispy; if they had had the means to do electrocution back then, that would have been quite effective and fun to see; skinni

First, you need to prove jesus existed in the first place. And no, the bible is not proof. Neither is consensus. Good luck, your Nobel prize awaits.

Then, after you do that, you have to prove what the means of his death was. That’s going to require an autopsy. Which is going to require remains.

Why do you want to?

Which Roman legion crucified Jesus?

Jesus was not crucified by a Roman legion; legions were made up of 8,000 Roman soldiers that were also Roman citizens. Legions were standing armies that were mobilized in times of war. In Judea, the country in which Jesus was crucified, the Roman Empire had already handily besieged the country about 100 years prior; there were no wars being fought in the region and thus there were no legions in Judea. The armed unit that crucified Jesus was an auxiliary unit called Cohors I Sebastenorum. It should be noted that auxiliary units, otherwise known as Cohorts, were made up of 800 non-Roman soldiers

You cant, but even atheists and histrorians agree a man named Jesus probably existed was crucified by the Romans. The problem with Zakir naik is that hes using the Bible to try disprove he was crucified and rose again by using Jesus’ own words about what happened to Jonah.

He argues well if he was alive then so was Jesus therefore Jesus didn't die, however Jesus only likened his crucifixion to the time factor (3 days) and Jesus also made another reference to his Crucifixion

‘As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness so must the Son of man be lifted up’

So if we apply the same logic then Je

If Jesus AS died for the sins of the Christians, what reason do the Christians have to work hard to do good deeds and stay away from evil?
The question assumes a common error made by evangelists, that forgiveness of sins is a legal transaction exterior to the person, and that that is the sum of salvation.

Forgiveness of sins is just an aspect of what Jesus was really about: to change lives, change hearts, give a new kind of life. That new kind of life is one that no longer looks primarily to satisfy one’s self but looks to treat others as well as one treats one’s self. It naturally produces good deeds and equally naturally avoids evil.

Of course it begins like the planting of a seed, so sudden, radical transformations shouldn’t be

The question contains a serious flaw. If you want to come to a rational answer you need to start by gathering evidence, then see what conclusion the evidence leads to. If you start with the conclusion, then gather evidence to try to prove that you're right, you are using a dishonest process. Start with a question rather than a conclusion. For example: "was Jesus crucified or not?" Now you can gather evidence such as written accounts, physical artifacts, etc. The final step is to evaluate your evidence. This is probably the most difficult because it's so easy to accept the evidence you like and

If Jesus died for our sins, does that mean people can sin however they want to and won't worry about being sent to hell after they die?
That would be the logical outcome.


What exactly it means that Jesus died for your sins is a matter of some debate among Christians. Many Evangelical Christians believe that any sin is forgiveable if you simply have faith in Jesus, and that all are damned who do not have faith.

The logical outcome is that you can go on a murder spree and then convert as you lie dying from gunshot wounds to absolve yourself of your sins.

Most other Christians take a more nuanced view on the matter.

Why are there no Roman records of the crucifixion of Jesus?
The reality is that, although in our world, Jesus is one of the most important people to ever have died, no one who met him during his lifetime would have predicted that.

Consider how he would have appeared to a Roman official: an itinerant Jewish preacher with a tiny band of followers. He entirely virtually unknown. Decades from now, people will start ascribing all sorts of miracles to him, but there, standing in front of the governor, he seems nothing special. He hasn’t accomplished anything of note.

Passover is a holiday when Jews are commemorating their escape from subjugation, a situation v

During which Roman emperor's reign was Jesus crucified?
Tiberius was Emperor of Rome from 14 to 37 AD. Fourteen was the first year of his reign.

Jesus of Nazareth was crucified in either 30 or 33 AD.

So Jesus’s death took place in either the 17th year or the 20th year of the rule of Caesar Tiberius.

Was Christ really crucified?
Most likely, yes.

The "scandal of the cross" was actually one of the biggest public relations problems faced by early Christianity. As early as the 50s AD Paul acknowledged that preaching a saviour who had been crucified was considered ridiculous to most people. To the Jews, anyone who had been "hanged on the tree" was considered accursed and abandoned by God based on their interpretation of Deuteronomy 21:23. And to non-Jews crucifixion was the most shameful and humiliating of deaths, reserved for escaped slaves, bandits and rebels against Rome. This is why Paul says that claiming a crucif

What are the historical proofs that Jesus was crucified? The Muslims say that he was not.
What evidence is there to support the claim that Jesus was not crucified at all?
Why does the Qur’an say that Jesus wasn’t crucified when the Bible says he was?
What is the evidence to know that Jesus actually was crucified and rose from the dead?
How credible is the claim that Jesus was the son of a Roman soldier?
Is there proof that Jesus died on the cross, and is there proof he was even real?
Why was Jesus not crucified?
Muslims: What historical evidence do you have that Jesus wasn't crucified?
Is there any statement from Jesus that he is not killed and not crucified?
Was Jesus really crucified, or was it another person resembling him?
What evidence do we have that Christ was crucified?
Did Jesus actually die on the cross when he was crucified?
Is it a historical fact that Jesus was crucified?
How do they know where Jesus was crucified?
What trials did Jesus face before His crucifixion?





If none of y'all have a answer to any of this, you're either faking it or Jehovah's Witnesses have manged to change YOU. That would actually be plausible, considering the fact that YOU guys openly support oppression and also Tyranny. So I wouldn't put it past any of you, for supporting anything other then those two things.






CHECKMATE to each and every one of you. @Wheeler You was a real one and I'll always be your bro. But after everyday with these people I can't anymore. This is too much of a oppressing and tyrannical supportive environment WEBsite for future would be dictators. It gives these people a sense of falsehood, a sense of corruption. For what they believe in. And I don't want any part of it moving forward.


Jesus is Jesus, the Cross is a Cross. How can Jesus be a Cross? (That is my opinion).
Praise be to, Lord Allah,
Praise be to Muhammad (Saw) Peace and Blessings Be Upon Him.
And all the great Prophets that made Islam what it is.
Yes including you Angel Gabriel, especially you I didn't forget you.



As of today, January 22nd 2023 I am no longer apart of this Community. Because of the reason I personally listed to Wheeler. Thank you and have a good life.
0

Y'all 70% there, or 90% there. Well, I'm 100% there, and I'm tired of you telling me you're the same.

OG ?
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22nd January 2023, 06:54 PM

is there a TL;DR for this
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+1 by teig, misty, Loki, Dice and 1 other

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22nd January 2023, 06:54 PM

SentFromTheTrash wrote on 22nd January 2023, 06:48 PM:
Quote:
Quote:
Really was on my way out the door.
With this post, it is officially goodbye from me Cariti.
But wanted to open your eyes since oppressing is all this WEBsite does as well as making everyone be supportive of Tyranny. Therefore, I cannot support this WEBsite 100%
I made and took 100% out of my own time to, collaborate all of this so YOU didn't have to. Collaborate what? The facts. Enjoy!
There is nothing strange about the Muslims rejecting this idea, because the Qur’aan in which they believe and accept what it tells them definitively states that that did not happen, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And because of their saying (in boast), ‘We killed Messiah ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allaah,’ — but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but it appeared so to them the resemblance of ‘Eesa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man)], and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not [i.e. ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)]”
[al-Nisa’ 4:157]
Rather the problem rests with the Christians for whom the doctrine of the crucifixion and redemption has become a central issue, so much so that the cross is the symbol of their religion.
It is strange that they differ concerning the form of this cross which indicates their confusion about this fabrication.
There are differences between their Gospels and their historians regarding everything that has to do with the story of the crucifixion.
They differ concerning the timing of the Last Supper, which according to them was one of the events in the lead-up to the crucifixion. They differ concerning the traitor who led (the Romans) to Christ – did that happen at least one day before the Last Supper, as narrated by Luke, or during it, after Christ gave him the piece of bread, as narrated by John?
Was Christ the one who carried his cross, as John says, as was customary with one who was going to be crucified, according to Nottingham, or was it Simon of Cyrene, as the other three Gospels state?
They say that two thieves were crucified alongside Christ, one on his right and one on his left, so what was the attitude of these two towards the Messiah who was being crucified, as they claim?
Did the thieves scorn him for being crucified, and say that his Lord had abandoned him and left him to his enemies? Or did only one of them scorn him, and did the other rebuke the one who scorned him?
At what hour did this crucifixion take place – was it in the third hour, as Mark says, or in the sixth as John says?
What happened after the so-called crucifixion?
Mark says that the veil of the Temple was torn from top to bottom. Matthew adds that the earth shook and rocks crumbled, and many of the saints rose from their graves and entered the holy city, appearing to many. Luke says that the sun turned dark, and the veil of the Temple was torn in the middle, and when the centurion saw what had happened, he glorified God and said, “Truly this man was righteous.”
But John does not know anything about all that!
These are not the only weak elements and indications of falseness in the story of the crucifixion, as narrated in the gospels. Rather the one who studies the details of the gospel narratives of this story will, with the least effort, notice the great differences in the details of this story, which are such that it is impossible to believe it all or even any part of it!
How desperate are the failed attempts to fill this gap and conceal the faults of this distorted book. Allaah indeed spoke the truth when He said in His Book which He has preserved (interpretation of the meaning):
“Do they not then consider the Qur’aan carefully? Had it been from other than Allaah, they would surely, have found therein many a contradiction”
[al-Nisa’ 4:82]
Apart from the fact that the gospel accounts are not sound, and their authors themselves admit that they were not revealed to the Messiah in this form, nor were they even written during his lifetime, none of the witnesses were present at the events to which they testify, as Mark says:
“Then everyone deserted him and fled.”
Mark 14:50 – New International Version (NIV)
Because these events were not witnessed by anyone who narrated them, there is a great deal of room for imagination and poetic licence.
We will complete our discussion of the fable of the crucifixion of Christ (peace be upon him) by looking at what the Gospels say about the Messiah’s prediction that he would be saved from death:
On one occasion the Pharisees and chief priests sent the guards to arrest him and he said to them:
“I am with you for only a short time, and then I go to the one who sent me. You will look for me, but you will not find me, and where I am, you cannot come.”
John 7:33-34 – NIV
Elsewhere he says:
“Once more Jesus said to them, ‘I am going away, and you will look for me, and you will die in your sin. Where I go, you cannot come.’
This made the Jews ask, ‘Will he kill himself? Is that why he says, “Where I go, you cannot come”?’
But he continued, ‘You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.
I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins.’
‘Who are you?’ they asked.
‘Just what I have been claiming all along,’ Jesus replied. ‘I have much to say in judgment of you. But he who sent me is reliable, and what I have heard from him I tell the world.’
They did not understand that he was telling them about his Father.
So Jesus said, ‘When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me.
The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him.’”
John 8:21-29 – NIV
Then at the end he tells them again:
“For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'”
Matthew 23:39 – NIV, also Luke 13:35
The Messiah, as these texts and others show, was certain that God would never hand him over to his enemies, and would never forsake him.
“But a time is coming, and has come, when you will be scattered, each to his own home. You will leave me all alone. Yet I am not alone, for my Father is with me.
I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.”
John 16:32-33
Because of that the passers by, and indeed everyone who attended the so-called crucifixion, mocked the Messiah, as the writer of this Gospel says (although that could not have been true):
“Those who passed by hurled insults at him, shaking their heads
and saying, ‘You who are going to destroy the temple and build it in three days, save yourself! Come down from the cross, if you are the Son of God!’
In the same way the chief priests, the teachers of the law and the elders mocked him.
‘He saved others,’ they said, ‘but he can't save himself! He's the King of Israel! Let him come down now from the cross, and we will believe in him.
He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, “I am the Son of God.”’
In the same way the robbers who were crucified with him also heaped insults on him.”
Matthew 27:39-44 – NIV
But it seems that Jesus’ certainty that God was with him began to waver, according to the distorted Gospel narrative, (although that could not have been true):
“Then Jesus went with his disciples to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to them, ‘Sit here while I go over there and pray.’
He took Peter and the two sons of Zebedee along with him, and he began to be sorrowful and troubled.
Then he said to them, ‘My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me.’
Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, ‘My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.’
Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping.

He went away a second time and prayed, ‘My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done.’
When he came back, he again found them sleeping, …
So he left them and went away once more and prayed the third time, saying the same thing.
Then he returned to the disciples and said to them, ‘Are you still sleeping and resting? Look, the hour is near, and the Son of Man is betrayed into the hands of sinners’”
Matthew 26:36-45 – NIV
Luke describes the scene and says:
“And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground.
When he rose from prayer and went back to the disciples, he found them asleep, exhausted from sorrow.
‘Why are you sleeping?’ he asked them. ‘Get up and pray so that you will not fall into temptation.’”
Luke 22:44-46 – NIV
Because of this mockery of the message of Christ – according to their claims – and because Christ thought that God was with him and would never forsake him, then it follows that the writer who fabricated this dramatic scene would end it with a vision of the despair of the Messiah and his feelings of being abandoned by God – exalted be Allaah far above what the wrongdoers say. The fabricator says:
“From the sixth hour until the ninth hour darkness came over all the land.
About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, ‘Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?’--which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
Matthew 27:38-47 – NIV
See also Mark 15:34
If we understand what this story means when subjected to criticism, the same will apply to the doctrine of redemption and sacrifice that is based on it.
With regard to the Christian doctrine of salvation, see also question no. 6
And Allaah is the Source of strength and the guide to the Straight Path, and there is no Lord but He.
Islam Q&A
How can we find evidence of Jesus’ resurrection?
Good luck with that.
I find it hard to prove he even existed. There is a guy on YouTube named “godless engineer” check him out if you are interested in arguments against his existence and therefore the inability to have been crucified.
You cannot prove Jesus was not cruficied as Daniel 8 14 prophecy that says 2300 days the sanctuary shalll be cleansed proves Jesus was crucified in DA 9 Gabriel explains to Daniel that from Jerusalemn rebuilt to Jesus batised was 69 weeks
this prophecy given 650 years before was accomplished to the very year . Then it says after 3 years and a half Messiah is cut off and crucified Is 53 says xritten 650 bc that Jesus would die for the sins of the people . In fact from the book of Genesis and the animal sacrifice it is an example of how God prepared the way for Jesus coming and death onthe cross
Is there a valid historical proof that Jesus was crucified?
Yes. There is valid historical proof that Jesus was crucified. Of course, the word “proof” is sketchy, especially to people with a background in mathematics, but according to the same standards that are applied to every other figure or event in ancient history, there is as much certainty that Jesus was crucified as there is that Caesar crossed the Rubicon.
No, wait - I take that back. There is greater certainty that Jesus was crucified than there is that Caesar crossed the Rubicon. There are more historical references to the crucifixion of Jesus, those sources are substantially closer to the ev
How was Jesus crucified?
“The literary sources for the Roman period contain numerous descriptions of crucifixion but few exact details as to how the condemned were affixed to the cross. Unfortunately, the direct physical evidence here is also limited to one right calcaneum (heel bone) pierced by an 11.5 cm iron nail with traces of wood at both ends.”
Iashoa of Natzrat (Jesus of Nazareth) was crucified in the year 30 A.D, likely falling on the fourteenth of Nisan (נִיסָן), April 7 according to the Gregorian calendar. This also would have coincided with the Friday Passover festival.
Exactly forty years before the destruct
Who cares if it was crucified or not? The goal of killing it was accomplished either way, so what does it matter?
As long as it was successfully killed and destroyed, no problem! Its death was all that mattered.
But perhaps a more brutal punishment would have been more appropriate, such as drawing and quartering it; live evisceration (cutting it open and disemboweling it in front of its disciples while it was still alive); burning it at the stake until it was dead and very crispy; if they had had the means to do electrocution back then, that would have been quite effective and fun to see; skinni
First, you need to prove jesus existed in the first place. And no, the bible is not proof. Neither is consensus. Good luck, your Nobel prize awaits.
Then, after you do that, you have to prove what the means of his death was. That’s going to require an autopsy. Which is going to require remains.
Why do you want to?
Which Roman legion crucified Jesus?
Jesus was not crucified by a Roman legion; legions were made up of 8,000 Roman soldiers that were also Roman citizens. Legions were standing armies that were mobilized in times of war. In Judea, the country in which Jesus was crucified, the Roman Empire had already handily besieged the country about 100 years prior; there were no wars being fought in the region and thus there were no legions in Judea. The armed unit that crucified Jesus was an auxiliary unit called Cohors I Sebastenorum. It should be noted that auxiliary units, otherwise known as Cohorts, were made up of 800 non-Roman soldiers
You cant, but even atheists and histrorians agree a man named Jesus probably existed was crucified by the Romans. The problem with Zakir naik is that hes using the Bible to try disprove he was crucified and rose again by using Jesus’ own words about what happened to Jonah.
He argues well if he was alive then so was Jesus therefore Jesus didn't die, however Jesus only likened his crucifixion to the time factor (3 days) and Jesus also made another reference to his Crucifixion
‘As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness so must the Son of man be lifted up’
So if we apply the same logic then Je
If Jesus AS died for the sins of the Christians, what reason do the Christians have to work hard to do good deeds and stay away from evil?
The question assumes a common error made by evangelists, that forgiveness of sins is a legal transaction exterior to the person, and that that is the sum of salvation.
Forgiveness of sins is just an aspect of what Jesus was really about: to change lives, change hearts, give a new kind of life. That new kind of life is one that no longer looks primarily to satisfy one’s self but looks to treat others as well as one treats one’s self. It naturally produces good deeds and equally naturally avoids evil.
Of course it begins like the planting of a seed, so sudden, radical transformations shouldn’t be
The question contains a serious flaw. If you want to come to a rational answer you need to start by gathering evidence, then see what conclusion the evidence leads to. If you start with the conclusion, then gather evidence to try to prove that you're right, you are using a dishonest process. Start with a question rather than a conclusion. For example: "was Jesus crucified or not?" Now you can gather evidence such as written accounts, physical artifacts, etc. The final step is to evaluate your evidence. This is probably the most difficult because it's so easy to accept the evidence you like and
If Jesus died for our sins, does that mean people can sin however they want to and won't worry about being sent to hell after they die?
That would be the logical outcome.
What exactly it means that Jesus died for your sins is a matter of some debate among Christians. Many Evangelical Christians believe that any sin is forgiveable if you simply have faith in Jesus, and that all are damned who do not have faith.
The logical outcome is that you can go on a murder spree and then convert as you lie dying from gunshot wounds to absolve yourself of your sins.
Most other Christians take a more nuanced view on the matter.
Why are there no Roman records of the crucifixion of Jesus?
The reality is that, although in our world, Jesus is one of the most important people to ever have died, no one who met him during his lifetime would have predicted that.
Consider how he would have appeared to a Roman official: an itinerant Jewish preacher with a tiny band of followers. He entirely virtually unknown. Decades from now, people will start ascribing all sorts of miracles to him, but there, standing in front of the governor, he seems nothing special. He hasn’t accomplished anything of note.
Passover is a holiday when Jews are commemorating their escape from subjugation, a situation v
During which Roman emperor's reign was Jesus crucified?
Tiberius was Emperor of Rome from 14 to 37 AD. Fourteen was the first year of his reign.
Jesus of Nazareth was crucified in either 30 or 33 AD.
So Jesus’s death took place in either the 17th year or the 20th year of the rule of Caesar Tiberius.
Was Christ really crucified?
Most likely, yes.
The "scandal of the cross" was actually one of the biggest public relations problems faced by early Christianity. As early as the 50s AD Paul acknowledged that preaching a saviour who had been crucified was considered ridiculous to most people. To the Jews, anyone who had been "hanged on the tree" was considered accursed and abandoned by God based on their interpretation of Deuteronomy 21:23. And to non-Jews crucifixion was the most shameful and humiliating of deaths, reserved for escaped slaves, bandits and rebels against Rome. This is why Paul says that claiming a crucif
What are the historical proofs that Jesus was crucified? The Muslims say that he was not.
What evidence is there to support the claim that Jesus was not crucified at all?
Why does the Qur’an say that Jesus wasn’t crucified when the Bible says he was?
What is the evidence to know that Jesus actually was crucified and rose from the dead?
How credible is the claim that Jesus was the son of a Roman soldier?
Is there proof that Jesus died on the cross, and is there proof he was even real?
Why was Jesus not crucified?
Muslims: What historical evidence do you have that Jesus wasn't crucified?
Is there any statement from Jesus that he is not killed and not crucified?
Was Jesus really crucified, or was it another person resembling him?
What evidence do we have that Christ was crucified?
Did Jesus actually die on the cross when he was crucified?
Is it a historical fact that Jesus was crucified?
How do they know where Jesus was crucified?
What trials did Jesus face before His crucifixion?
If none of y'all have a answer to any of this, you're either faking it or Jehovah's Witnesses have manged to change YOU. That would actually be plausible, considering the fact that YOU guys openly support oppression and also Tyranny. So I wouldn't put it past any of you, for supporting anything other then those two things.
CHECKMATE to each and every one of you. @Wheeler You was a real one and I'll always be your bro. But after everyday with these people I can't anymore. This is too much of a oppressing and tyrannical supportive environment WEBsite for future would be dictators. It gives these people a sense of falsehood, a sense of corruption. For what they believe in. And I don't want any part of it moving forward.
Jesus is Jesus, the Cross is a Cross. How can Jesus be a Cross? (That is my opinion).
Praise be to, Lord Allah,
Praise be to Muhammad (Saw) Peace and Blessings Be Upon Him.
And all the great Prophets that made Islam what it is.
Yes including you Angel Gabriel, especially you I didn't forget you.
As of today, January 22nd 2023 I am no longer apart of this Community. Because of the reason I personally listed to Wheeler. Thank you and have a good life.


mods delete this for targeted harassment against Christians and anyone who is not muslim
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Best Regards,
Ari,
https://imgur.com/DKo2Qfg

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22nd January 2023, 06:55 PM

rasberry wrote on 22nd January 2023, 06:54 PM:
is there a TL;DR to this


TDLR: The truth is in the text.
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Y'all 70% there, or 90% there. Well, I'm 100% there, and I'm tired of you telling me you're the same.

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22nd January 2023, 06:58 PM

icevanka221 wrote on 22nd January 2023, 06:54 PM:
Quote:
SentFromTheTrash wrote on 22nd January 2023, 06:48 PM:
Quote:
Quote:
Really was on my way out the door.
With this post, it is officially goodbye from me Cariti.
But wanted to open your eyes since oppressing is all this WEBsite does as well as making everyone be supportive of Tyranny. Therefore, I cannot support this WEBsite 100%
I made and took 100% out of my own time to, collaborate all of this so YOU didn't have to. Collaborate what? The facts. Enjoy!
There is nothing strange about the Muslims rejecting this idea, because the Qur’aan in which they believe and accept what it tells them definitively states that that did not happen, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And because of their saying (in boast), ‘We killed Messiah ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allaah,’ — but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but it appeared so to them the resemblance of ‘Eesa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man)], and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not [i.e. ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)]”
[al-Nisa’ 4:157]
Rather the problem rests with the Christians for whom the doctrine of the crucifixion and redemption has become a central issue, so much so that the cross is the symbol of their religion.
It is strange that they differ concerning the form of this cross which indicates their confusion about this fabrication.
There are differences between their Gospels and their historians regarding everything that has to do with the story of the crucifixion.
They differ concerning the timing of the Last Supper, which according to them was one of the events in the lead-up to the crucifixion. They differ concerning the traitor who led (the Romans) to Christ – did that happen at least one day before the Last Supper, as narrated by Luke, or during it, after Christ gave him the piece of bread, as narrated by John?
Was Christ the one who carried his cross, as John says, as was customary with one who was going to be crucified, according to Nottingham, or was it Simon of Cyrene, as the other three Gospels state?
They say that two thieves were crucified alongside Christ, one on his right and one on his left, so what was the attitude of these two towards the Messiah who was being crucified, as they claim?
Did the thieves scorn him for being crucified, and say that his Lord had abandoned him and left him to his enemies? Or did only one of them scorn him, and did the other rebuke the one who scorned him?
At what hour did this crucifixion take place – was it in the third hour, as Mark says, or in the sixth as John says?
What happened after the so-called crucifixion?
Mark says that the veil of the Temple was torn from top to bottom. Matthew adds that the earth shook and rocks crumbled, and many of the saints rose from their graves and entered the holy city, appearing to many. Luke says that the sun turned dark, and the veil of the Temple was torn in the middle, and when the centurion saw what had happened, he glorified God and said, “Truly this man was righteous.”
But John does not know anything about all that!
These are not the only weak elements and indications of falseness in the story of the crucifixion, as narrated in the gospels. Rather the one who studies the details of the gospel narratives of this story will, with the least effort, notice the great differences in the details of this story, which are such that it is impossible to believe it all or even any part of it!
How desperate are the failed attempts to fill this gap and conceal the faults of this distorted book. Allaah indeed spoke the truth when He said in His Book which He has preserved (interpretation of the meaning):
“Do they not then consider the Qur’aan carefully? Had it been from other than Allaah, they would surely, have found therein many a contradiction”
[al-Nisa’ 4:82]
Apart from the fact that the gospel accounts are not sound, and their authors themselves admit that they were not revealed to the Messiah in this form, nor were they even written during his lifetime, none of the witnesses were present at the events to which they testify, as Mark says:
“Then everyone deserted him and fled.”
Mark 14:50 – New International Version (NIV)
Because these events were not witnessed by anyone who narrated them, there is a great deal of room for imagination and poetic licence.
We will complete our discussion of the fable of the crucifixion of Christ (peace be upon him) by looking at what the Gospels say about the Messiah’s prediction that he would be saved from death:
On one occasion the Pharisees and chief priests sent the guards to arrest him and he said to them:
“I am with you for only a short time, and then I go to the one who sent me. You will look for me, but you will not find me, and where I am, you cannot come.”
John 7:33-34 – NIV
Elsewhere he says:
“Once more Jesus said to them, ‘I am going away, and you will look for me, and you will die in your sin. Where I go, you cannot come.’
This made the Jews ask, ‘Will he kill himself? Is that why he says, “Where I go, you cannot come”?’
But he continued, ‘You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.
I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins.’
‘Who are you?’ they asked.
‘Just what I have been claiming all along,’ Jesus replied. ‘I have much to say in judgment of you. But he who sent me is reliable, and what I have heard from him I tell the world.’
They did not understand that he was telling them about his Father.
So Jesus said, ‘When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me.
The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him.’”
John 8:21-29 – NIV
Then at the end he tells them again:
“For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'”
Matthew 23:39 – NIV, also Luke 13:35
The Messiah, as these texts and others show, was certain that God would never hand him over to his enemies, and would never forsake him.
“But a time is coming, and has come, when you will be scattered, each to his own home. You will leave me all alone. Yet I am not alone, for my Father is with me.
I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.”
John 16:32-33
Because of that the passers by, and indeed everyone who attended the so-called crucifixion, mocked the Messiah, as the writer of this Gospel says (although that could not have been true):
“Those who passed by hurled insults at him, shaking their heads
and saying, ‘You who are going to destroy the temple and build it in three days, save yourself! Come down from the cross, if you are the Son of God!’
In the same way the chief priests, the teachers of the law and the elders mocked him.
‘He saved others,’ they said, ‘but he can't save himself! He's the King of Israel! Let him come down now from the cross, and we will believe in him.
He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, “I am the Son of God.”’
In the same way the robbers who were crucified with him also heaped insults on him.”
Matthew 27:39-44 – NIV
But it seems that Jesus’ certainty that God was with him began to waver, according to the distorted Gospel narrative, (although that could not have been true):
“Then Jesus went with his disciples to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to them, ‘Sit here while I go over there and pray.’
He took Peter and the two sons of Zebedee along with him, and he began to be sorrowful and troubled.
Then he said to them, ‘My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me.’
Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, ‘My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.’
Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping.

He went away a second time and prayed, ‘My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done.’
When he came back, he again found them sleeping, …
So he left them and went away once more and prayed the third time, saying the same thing.
Then he returned to the disciples and said to them, ‘Are you still sleeping and resting? Look, the hour is near, and the Son of Man is betrayed into the hands of sinners’”
Matthew 26:36-45 – NIV
Luke describes the scene and says:
“And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground.
When he rose from prayer and went back to the disciples, he found them asleep, exhausted from sorrow.
‘Why are you sleeping?’ he asked them. ‘Get up and pray so that you will not fall into temptation.’”
Luke 22:44-46 – NIV
Because of this mockery of the message of Christ – according to their claims – and because Christ thought that God was with him and would never forsake him, then it follows that the writer who fabricated this dramatic scene would end it with a vision of the despair of the Messiah and his feelings of being abandoned by God – exalted be Allaah far above what the wrongdoers say. The fabricator says:
“From the sixth hour until the ninth hour darkness came over all the land.
About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, ‘Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?’--which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
Matthew 27:38-47 – NIV
See also Mark 15:34
If we understand what this story means when subjected to criticism, the same will apply to the doctrine of redemption and sacrifice that is based on it.
With regard to the Christian doctrine of salvation, see also question no. 6
And Allaah is the Source of strength and the guide to the Straight Path, and there is no Lord but He.
Islam Q&A
How can we find evidence of Jesus’ resurrection?
Good luck with that.
I find it hard to prove he even existed. There is a guy on YouTube named “godless engineer” check him out if you are interested in arguments against his existence and therefore the inability to have been crucified.
You cannot prove Jesus was not cruficied as Daniel 8 14 prophecy that says 2300 days the sanctuary shalll be cleansed proves Jesus was crucified in DA 9 Gabriel explains to Daniel that from Jerusalemn rebuilt to Jesus batised was 69 weeks
this prophecy given 650 years before was accomplished to the very year . Then it says after 3 years and a half Messiah is cut off and crucified Is 53 says xritten 650 bc that Jesus would die for the sins of the people . In fact from the book of Genesis and the animal sacrifice it is an example of how God prepared the way for Jesus coming and death onthe cross
Is there a valid historical proof that Jesus was crucified?
Yes. There is valid historical proof that Jesus was crucified. Of course, the word “proof” is sketchy, especially to people with a background in mathematics, but according to the same standards that are applied to every other figure or event in ancient history, there is as much certainty that Jesus was crucified as there is that Caesar crossed the Rubicon.
No, wait - I take that back. There is greater certainty that Jesus was crucified than there is that Caesar crossed the Rubicon. There are more historical references to the crucifixion of Jesus, those sources are substantially closer to the ev
How was Jesus crucified?
“The literary sources for the Roman period contain numerous descriptions of crucifixion but few exact details as to how the condemned were affixed to the cross. Unfortunately, the direct physical evidence here is also limited to one right calcaneum (heel bone) pierced by an 11.5 cm iron nail with traces of wood at both ends.”
Iashoa of Natzrat (Jesus of Nazareth) was crucified in the year 30 A.D, likely falling on the fourteenth of Nisan (נִיסָן), April 7 according to the Gregorian calendar. This also would have coincided with the Friday Passover festival.
Exactly forty years before the destruct
Who cares if it was crucified or not? The goal of killing it was accomplished either way, so what does it matter?
As long as it was successfully killed and destroyed, no problem! Its death was all that mattered.
But perhaps a more brutal punishment would have been more appropriate, such as drawing and quartering it; live evisceration (cutting it open and disemboweling it in front of its disciples while it was still alive); burning it at the stake until it was dead and very crispy; if they had had the means to do electrocution back then, that would have been quite effective and fun to see; skinni
First, you need to prove jesus existed in the first place. And no, the bible is not proof. Neither is consensus. Good luck, your Nobel prize awaits.
Then, after you do that, you have to prove what the means of his death was. That’s going to require an autopsy. Which is going to require remains.
Why do you want to?
Which Roman legion crucified Jesus?
Jesus was not crucified by a Roman legion; legions were made up of 8,000 Roman soldiers that were also Roman citizens. Legions were standing armies that were mobilized in times of war. In Judea, the country in which Jesus was crucified, the Roman Empire had already handily besieged the country about 100 years prior; there were no wars being fought in the region and thus there were no legions in Judea. The armed unit that crucified Jesus was an auxiliary unit called Cohors I Sebastenorum. It should be noted that auxiliary units, otherwise known as Cohorts, were made up of 800 non-Roman soldiers
You cant, but even atheists and histrorians agree a man named Jesus probably existed was crucified by the Romans. The problem with Zakir naik is that hes using the Bible to try disprove he was crucified and rose again by using Jesus’ own words about what happened to Jonah.
He argues well if he was alive then so was Jesus therefore Jesus didn't die, however Jesus only likened his crucifixion to the time factor (3 days) and Jesus also made another reference to his Crucifixion
‘As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness so must the Son of man be lifted up’
So if we apply the same logic then Je
If Jesus AS died for the sins of the Christians, what reason do the Christians have to work hard to do good deeds and stay away from evil?
The question assumes a common error made by evangelists, that forgiveness of sins is a legal transaction exterior to the person, and that that is the sum of salvation.
Forgiveness of sins is just an aspect of what Jesus was really about: to change lives, change hearts, give a new kind of life. That new kind of life is one that no longer looks primarily to satisfy one’s self but looks to treat others as well as one treats one’s self. It naturally produces good deeds and equally naturally avoids evil.
Of course it begins like the planting of a seed, so sudden, radical transformations shouldn’t be
The question contains a serious flaw. If you want to come to a rational answer you need to start by gathering evidence, then see what conclusion the evidence leads to. If you start with the conclusion, then gather evidence to try to prove that you're right, you are using a dishonest process. Start with a question rather than a conclusion. For example: "was Jesus crucified or not?" Now you can gather evidence such as written accounts, physical artifacts, etc. The final step is to evaluate your evidence. This is probably the most difficult because it's so easy to accept the evidence you like and
If Jesus died for our sins, does that mean people can sin however they want to and won't worry about being sent to hell after they die?
That would be the logical outcome.
What exactly it means that Jesus died for your sins is a matter of some debate among Christians. Many Evangelical Christians believe that any sin is forgiveable if you simply have faith in Jesus, and that all are damned who do not have faith.
The logical outcome is that you can go on a murder spree and then convert as you lie dying from gunshot wounds to absolve yourself of your sins.
Most other Christians take a more nuanced view on the matter.
Why are there no Roman records of the crucifixion of Jesus?
The reality is that, although in our world, Jesus is one of the most important people to ever have died, no one who met him during his lifetime would have predicted that.
Consider how he would have appeared to a Roman official: an itinerant Jewish preacher with a tiny band of followers. He entirely virtually unknown. Decades from now, people will start ascribing all sorts of miracles to him, but there, standing in front of the governor, he seems nothing special. He hasn’t accomplished anything of note.
Passover is a holiday when Jews are commemorating their escape from subjugation, a situation v
During which Roman emperor's reign was Jesus crucified?
Tiberius was Emperor of Rome from 14 to 37 AD. Fourteen was the first year of his reign.
Jesus of Nazareth was crucified in either 30 or 33 AD.
So Jesus’s death took place in either the 17th year or the 20th year of the rule of Caesar Tiberius.
Was Christ really crucified?
Most likely, yes.
The "scandal of the cross" was actually one of the biggest public relations problems faced by early Christianity. As early as the 50s AD Paul acknowledged that preaching a saviour who had been crucified was considered ridiculous to most people. To the Jews, anyone who had been "hanged on the tree" was considered accursed and abandoned by God based on their interpretation of Deuteronomy 21:23. And to non-Jews crucifixion was the most shameful and humiliating of deaths, reserved for escaped slaves, bandits and rebels against Rome. This is why Paul says that claiming a crucif
What are the historical proofs that Jesus was crucified? The Muslims say that he was not.
What evidence is there to support the claim that Jesus was not crucified at all?
Why does the Qur’an say that Jesus wasn’t crucified when the Bible says he was?
What is the evidence to know that Jesus actually was crucified and rose from the dead?
How credible is the claim that Jesus was the son of a Roman soldier?
Is there proof that Jesus died on the cross, and is there proof he was even real?
Why was Jesus not crucified?
Muslims: What historical evidence do you have that Jesus wasn't crucified?
Is there any statement from Jesus that he is not killed and not crucified?
Was Jesus really crucified, or was it another person resembling him?
What evidence do we have that Christ was crucified?
Did Jesus actually die on the cross when he was crucified?
Is it a historical fact that Jesus was crucified?
How do they know where Jesus was crucified?
What trials did Jesus face before His crucifixion?
If none of y'all have a answer to any of this, you're either faking it or Jehovah's Witnesses have manged to change YOU. That would actually be plausible, considering the fact that YOU guys openly support oppression and also Tyranny. So I wouldn't put it past any of you, for supporting anything other then those two things.
CHECKMATE to each and every one of you. @Wheeler You was a real one and I'll always be your bro. But after everyday with these people I can't anymore. This is too much of a oppressing and tyrannical supportive environment WEBsite for future would be dictators. It gives these people a sense of falsehood, a sense of corruption. For what they believe in. And I don't want any part of it moving forward.
Jesus is Jesus, the Cross is a Cross. How can Jesus be a Cross? (That is my opinion).
Praise be to, Lord Allah,
Praise be to Muhammad (Saw) Peace and Blessings Be Upon Him.
And all the great Prophets that made Islam what it is.
Yes including you Angel Gabriel, especially you I didn't forget you.
As of today, January 22nd 2023 I am no longer apart of this Community. Because of the reason I personally listed to Wheeler. Thank you and have a good life.
mods delete this for targeted harassment against Christians and anyone who is not muslim


Educating others is now, a form of harassment against Christianity? Y'all don't even know what harassment looks like supporting y'all bias staff on this WEBsite. Look, I just wanted to educate everyone before I left. I had no ill intent or bad intentions towards this post. This was supposed to be a calm and quiet debate. That we, as humans can enjoy and give our input to. Where did I say I hated anyone? I don't even hate anyone. Why is everyone so quick to judge me because I asked a simple question? The right thing to do would give me your honest opinion with the facts presented. If this caused drama, then how do I know they know what their religion is about? Does it state YOU can cause any type of drama? No it doesn't. Get back to learning what Ohio is. Always starting drama with me even tho, I didn't do anything to anyone. I spread love and positivity. And that's what the Holy Quran, the almighty Book of Allah has taught me to do.
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Y'all 70% there, or 90% there. Well, I'm 100% there, and I'm tired of you telling me you're the same.

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22nd January 2023, 07:43 PM

Not reading all of that
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22nd January 2023, 07:45 PM

Mucho texto
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¡Hola Buenas!
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22nd January 2023, 10:00 PM

icevanka221 wrote on 22nd January 2023, 06:54 PM:
mods delete this for targeted harassment against Christians and anyone who is not muslim

Everyone should have freedom for their own religion.
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Christus Rex Regum Est
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a lot of text for blasphemy
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Off the deep end
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23rd January 2023, 06:01 PM

SentFromTheTrash wrote on 22nd January 2023, 06:58 PM:
Quote:
icevanka221 wrote on 22nd January 2023, 06:54 PM:
Quote:
SentFromTheTrash wrote on 22nd January 2023, 06:48 PM:
Quote:
Quote:
Really was on my way out the door.
With this post, it is officially goodbye from me Cariti.
But wanted to open your eyes since oppressing is all this WEBsite does as well as making everyone be supportive of Tyranny. Therefore, I cannot support this WEBsite 100%
I made and took 100% out of my own time to, collaborate all of this so YOU didn't have to. Collaborate what? The facts. Enjoy!
There is nothing strange about the Muslims rejecting this idea, because the Qur’aan in which they believe and accept what it tells them definitively states that that did not happen, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And because of their saying (in boast), ‘We killed Messiah ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allaah,’ — but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but it appeared so to them the resemblance of ‘Eesa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man)], and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not [i.e. ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)]”
[al-Nisa’ 4:157]
Rather the problem rests with the Christians for whom the doctrine of the crucifixion and redemption has become a central issue, so much so that the cross is the symbol of their religion.
It is strange that they differ concerning the form of this cross which indicates their confusion about this fabrication.
There are differences between their Gospels and their historians regarding everything that has to do with the story of the crucifixion.
They differ concerning the timing of the Last Supper, which according to them was one of the events in the lead-up to the crucifixion. They differ concerning the traitor who led (the Romans) to Christ – did that happen at least one day before the Last Supper, as narrated by Luke, or during it, after Christ gave him the piece of bread, as narrated by John?
Was Christ the one who carried his cross, as John says, as was customary with one who was going to be crucified, according to Nottingham, or was it Simon of Cyrene, as the other three Gospels state?
They say that two thieves were crucified alongside Christ, one on his right and one on his left, so what was the attitude of these two towards the Messiah who was being crucified, as they claim?
Did the thieves scorn him for being crucified, and say that his Lord had abandoned him and left him to his enemies? Or did only one of them scorn him, and did the other rebuke the one who scorned him?
At what hour did this crucifixion take place – was it in the third hour, as Mark says, or in the sixth as John says?
What happened after the so-called crucifixion?
Mark says that the veil of the Temple was torn from top to bottom. Matthew adds that the earth shook and rocks crumbled, and many of the saints rose from their graves and entered the holy city, appearing to many. Luke says that the sun turned dark, and the veil of the Temple was torn in the middle, and when the centurion saw what had happened, he glorified God and said, “Truly this man was righteous.”
But John does not know anything about all that!
These are not the only weak elements and indications of falseness in the story of the crucifixion, as narrated in the gospels. Rather the one who studies the details of the gospel narratives of this story will, with the least effort, notice the great differences in the details of this story, which are such that it is impossible to believe it all or even any part of it!
How desperate are the failed attempts to fill this gap and conceal the faults of this distorted book. Allaah indeed spoke the truth when He said in His Book which He has preserved (interpretation of the meaning):
“Do they not then consider the Qur’aan carefully? Had it been from other than Allaah, they would surely, have found therein many a contradiction”
[al-Nisa’ 4:82]
Apart from the fact that the gospel accounts are not sound, and their authors themselves admit that they were not revealed to the Messiah in this form, nor were they even written during his lifetime, none of the witnesses were present at the events to which they testify, as Mark says:
“Then everyone deserted him and fled.”
Mark 14:50 – New International Version (NIV)
Because these events were not witnessed by anyone who narrated them, there is a great deal of room for imagination and poetic licence.
We will complete our discussion of the fable of the crucifixion of Christ (peace be upon him) by looking at what the Gospels say about the Messiah’s prediction that he would be saved from death:
On one occasion the Pharisees and chief priests sent the guards to arrest him and he said to them:
“I am with you for only a short time, and then I go to the one who sent me. You will look for me, but you will not find me, and where I am, you cannot come.”
John 7:33-34 – NIV
Elsewhere he says:
“Once more Jesus said to them, ‘I am going away, and you will look for me, and you will die in your sin. Where I go, you cannot come.’
This made the Jews ask, ‘Will he kill himself? Is that why he says, “Where I go, you cannot come”?’
But he continued, ‘You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.
I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins.’
‘Who are you?’ they asked.
‘Just what I have been claiming all along,’ Jesus replied. ‘I have much to say in judgment of you. But he who sent me is reliable, and what I have heard from him I tell the world.’
They did not understand that he was telling them about his Father.
So Jesus said, ‘When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me.
The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him.’”
John 8:21-29 – NIV
Then at the end he tells them again:
“For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'”
Matthew 23:39 – NIV, also Luke 13:35
The Messiah, as these texts and others show, was certain that God would never hand him over to his enemies, and would never forsake him.
“But a time is coming, and has come, when you will be scattered, each to his own home. You will leave me all alone. Yet I am not alone, for my Father is with me.
I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.”
John 16:32-33
Because of that the passers by, and indeed everyone who attended the so-called crucifixion, mocked the Messiah, as the writer of this Gospel says (although that could not have been true):
“Those who passed by hurled insults at him, shaking their heads
and saying, ‘You who are going to destroy the temple and build it in three days, save yourself! Come down from the cross, if you are the Son of God!’
In the same way the chief priests, the teachers of the law and the elders mocked him.
‘He saved others,’ they said, ‘but he can't save himself! He's the King of Israel! Let him come down now from the cross, and we will believe in him.
He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, “I am the Son of God.”’
In the same way the robbers who were crucified with him also heaped insults on him.”
Matthew 27:39-44 – NIV
But it seems that Jesus’ certainty that God was with him began to waver, according to the distorted Gospel narrative, (although that could not have been true):
“Then Jesus went with his disciples to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to them, ‘Sit here while I go over there and pray.’
He took Peter and the two sons of Zebedee along with him, and he began to be sorrowful and troubled.
Then he said to them, ‘My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me.’
Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, ‘My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.’
Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping.

He went away a second time and prayed, ‘My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done.’
When he came back, he again found them sleeping, …
So he left them and went away once more and prayed the third time, saying the same thing.
Then he returned to the disciples and said to them, ‘Are you still sleeping and resting? Look, the hour is near, and the Son of Man is betrayed into the hands of sinners’”
Matthew 26:36-45 – NIV
Luke describes the scene and says:
“And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground.
When he rose from prayer and went back to the disciples, he found them asleep, exhausted from sorrow.
‘Why are you sleeping?’ he asked them. ‘Get up and pray so that you will not fall into temptation.’”
Luke 22:44-46 – NIV
Because of this mockery of the message of Christ – according to their claims – and because Christ thought that God was with him and would never forsake him, then it follows that the writer who fabricated this dramatic scene would end it with a vision of the despair of the Messiah and his feelings of being abandoned by God – exalted be Allaah far above what the wrongdoers say. The fabricator says:
“From the sixth hour until the ninth hour darkness came over all the land.
About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, ‘Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?’--which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
Matthew 27:38-47 – NIV
See also Mark 15:34
If we understand what this story means when subjected to criticism, the same will apply to the doctrine of redemption and sacrifice that is based on it.
With regard to the Christian doctrine of salvation, see also question no. 6
And Allaah is the Source of strength and the guide to the Straight Path, and there is no Lord but He.
Islam Q&A
How can we find evidence of Jesus’ resurrection?
Good luck with that.
I find it hard to prove he even existed. There is a guy on YouTube named “godless engineer” check him out if you are interested in arguments against his existence and therefore the inability to have been crucified.
You cannot prove Jesus was not cruficied as Daniel 8 14 prophecy that says 2300 days the sanctuary shalll be cleansed proves Jesus was crucified in DA 9 Gabriel explains to Daniel that from Jerusalemn rebuilt to Jesus batised was 69 weeks
this prophecy given 650 years before was accomplished to the very year . Then it says after 3 years and a half Messiah is cut off and crucified Is 53 says xritten 650 bc that Jesus would die for the sins of the people . In fact from the book of Genesis and the animal sacrifice it is an example of how God prepared the way for Jesus coming and death onthe cross
Is there a valid historical proof that Jesus was crucified?
Yes. There is valid historical proof that Jesus was crucified. Of course, the word “proof” is sketchy, especially to people with a background in mathematics, but according to the same standards that are applied to every other figure or event in ancient history, there is as much certainty that Jesus was crucified as there is that Caesar crossed the Rubicon.
No, wait - I take that back. There is greater certainty that Jesus was crucified than there is that Caesar crossed the Rubicon. There are more historical references to the crucifixion of Jesus, those sources are substantially closer to the ev
How was Jesus crucified?
“The literary sources for the Roman period contain numerous descriptions of crucifixion but few exact details as to how the condemned were affixed to the cross. Unfortunately, the direct physical evidence here is also limited to one right calcaneum (heel bone) pierced by an 11.5 cm iron nail with traces of wood at both ends.”
Iashoa of Natzrat (Jesus of Nazareth) was crucified in the year 30 A.D, likely falling on the fourteenth of Nisan (נִיסָן), April 7 according to the Gregorian calendar. This also would have coincided with the Friday Passover festival.
Exactly forty years before the destruct
Who cares if it was crucified or not? The goal of killing it was accomplished either way, so what does it matter?
As long as it was successfully killed and destroyed, no problem! Its death was all that mattered.
But perhaps a more brutal punishment would have been more appropriate, such as drawing and quartering it; live evisceration (cutting it open and disemboweling it in front of its disciples while it was still alive); burning it at the stake until it was dead and very crispy; if they had had the means to do electrocution back then, that would have been quite effective and fun to see; skinni
First, you need to prove jesus existed in the first place. And no, the bible is not proof. Neither is consensus. Good luck, your Nobel prize awaits.
Then, after you do that, you have to prove what the means of his death was. That’s going to require an autopsy. Which is going to require remains.
Why do you want to?
Which Roman legion crucified Jesus?
Jesus was not crucified by a Roman legion; legions were made up of 8,000 Roman soldiers that were also Roman citizens. Legions were standing armies that were mobilized in times of war. In Judea, the country in which Jesus was crucified, the Roman Empire had already handily besieged the country about 100 years prior; there were no wars being fought in the region and thus there were no legions in Judea. The armed unit that crucified Jesus was an auxiliary unit called Cohors I Sebastenorum. It should be noted that auxiliary units, otherwise known as Cohorts, were made up of 800 non-Roman soldiers
You cant, but even atheists and histrorians agree a man named Jesus probably existed was crucified by the Romans. The problem with Zakir naik is that hes using the Bible to try disprove he was crucified and rose again by using Jesus’ own words about what happened to Jonah.
He argues well if he was alive then so was Jesus therefore Jesus didn't die, however Jesus only likened his crucifixion to the time factor (3 days) and Jesus also made another reference to his Crucifixion
‘As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness so must the Son of man be lifted up’
So if we apply the same logic then Je
If Jesus AS died for the sins of the Christians, what reason do the Christians have to work hard to do good deeds and stay away from evil?
The question assumes a common error made by evangelists, that forgiveness of sins is a legal transaction exterior to the person, and that that is the sum of salvation.
Forgiveness of sins is just an aspect of what Jesus was really about: to change lives, change hearts, give a new kind of life. That new kind of life is one that no longer looks primarily to satisfy one’s self but looks to treat others as well as one treats one’s self. It naturally produces good deeds and equally naturally avoids evil.
Of course it begins like the planting of a seed, so sudden, radical transformations shouldn’t be
The question contains a serious flaw. If you want to come to a rational answer you need to start by gathering evidence, then see what conclusion the evidence leads to. If you start with the conclusion, then gather evidence to try to prove that you're right, you are using a dishonest process. Start with a question rather than a conclusion. For example: "was Jesus crucified or not?" Now you can gather evidence such as written accounts, physical artifacts, etc. The final step is to evaluate your evidence. This is probably the most difficult because it's so easy to accept the evidence you like and
If Jesus died for our sins, does that mean people can sin however they want to and won't worry about being sent to hell after they die?
That would be the logical outcome.
What exactly it means that Jesus died for your sins is a matter of some debate among Christians. Many Evangelical Christians believe that any sin is forgiveable if you simply have faith in Jesus, and that all are damned who do not have faith.
The logical outcome is that you can go on a murder spree and then convert as you lie dying from gunshot wounds to absolve yourself of your sins.
Most other Christians take a more nuanced view on the matter.
Why are there no Roman records of the crucifixion of Jesus?
The reality is that, although in our world, Jesus is one of the most important people to ever have died, no one who met him during his lifetime would have predicted that.
Consider how he would have appeared to a Roman official: an itinerant Jewish preacher with a tiny band of followers. He entirely virtually unknown. Decades from now, people will start ascribing all sorts of miracles to him, but there, standing in front of the governor, he seems nothing special. He hasn’t accomplished anything of note.
Passover is a holiday when Jews are commemorating their escape from subjugation, a situation v
During which Roman emperor's reign was Jesus crucified?
Tiberius was Emperor of Rome from 14 to 37 AD. Fourteen was the first year of his reign.
Jesus of Nazareth was crucified in either 30 or 33 AD.
So Jesus’s death took place in either the 17th year or the 20th year of the rule of Caesar Tiberius.
Was Christ really crucified?
Most likely, yes.
The "scandal of the cross" was actually one of the biggest public relations problems faced by early Christianity. As early as the 50s AD Paul acknowledged that preaching a saviour who had been crucified was considered ridiculous to most people. To the Jews, anyone who had been "hanged on the tree" was considered accursed and abandoned by God based on their interpretation of Deuteronomy 21:23. And to non-Jews crucifixion was the most shameful and humiliating of deaths, reserved for escaped slaves, bandits and rebels against Rome. This is why Paul says that claiming a crucif
What are the historical proofs that Jesus was crucified? The Muslims say that he was not.
What evidence is there to support the claim that Jesus was not crucified at all?
Why does the Qur’an say that Jesus wasn’t crucified when the Bible says he was?
What is the evidence to know that Jesus actually was crucified and rose from the dead?
How credible is the claim that Jesus was the son of a Roman soldier?
Is there proof that Jesus died on the cross, and is there proof he was even real?
Why was Jesus not crucified?
Muslims: What historical evidence do you have that Jesus wasn't crucified?
Is there any statement from Jesus that he is not killed and not crucified?
Was Jesus really crucified, or was it another person resembling him?
What evidence do we have that Christ was crucified?
Did Jesus actually die on the cross when he was crucified?
Is it a historical fact that Jesus was crucified?
How do they know where Jesus was crucified?
What trials did Jesus face before His crucifixion?
If none of y'all have a answer to any of this, you're either faking it or Jehovah's Witnesses have manged to change YOU. That would actually be plausible, considering the fact that YOU guys openly support oppression and also Tyranny. So I wouldn't put it past any of you, for supporting anything other then those two things.
CHECKMATE to each and every one of you. @Wheeler You was a real one and I'll always be your bro. But after everyday with these people I can't anymore. This is too much of a oppressing and tyrannical supportive environment WEBsite for future would be dictators. It gives these people a sense of falsehood, a sense of corruption. For what they believe in. And I don't want any part of it moving forward.
Jesus is Jesus, the Cross is a Cross. How can Jesus be a Cross? (That is my opinion).
Praise be to, Lord Allah,
Praise be to Muhammad (Saw) Peace and Blessings Be Upon Him.
And all the great Prophets that made Islam what it is.
Yes including you Angel Gabriel, especially you I didn't forget you.
As of today, January 22nd 2023 I am no longer apart of this Community. Because of the reason I personally listed to Wheeler. Thank you and have a good life.
mods delete this for targeted harassment against Christians and anyone who is not muslim
Educating others is now, a form of harassment against Christianity? Y'all don't even know what harassment looks like supporting y'all bias staff on this WEBsite. Look, I just wanted to educate everyone before I left. I had no ill intent or bad intentions towards this post. This was supposed to be a calm and quiet debate. That we, as humans can enjoy and give our input to. Where did I say I hated anyone? I don't even hate anyone. Why is everyone so quick to judge me because I asked a simple question? The right thing to do would give me your honest opinion with the facts presented. If this caused drama, then how do I know they know what their religion is about? Does it state YOU can cause any type of drama? No it doesn't. Get back to learning what Ohio is. Always starting drama with me even tho, I didn't do anything to anyone. I spread love and positivity. And that's what the Holy Quran, the almighty Book of Allah has taught me to do.

It is indeed a form of harassment, don't you know about Evangelicals?
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24th January 2023, 07:20 AM

Ye i was there
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