11th October 2021
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133 views
Rebuttal for the New Update
Valiant
Master
790 posts
1,336
Seen 31st August 2023
Septim
11th October 2021, 06:55 PM
In the post, "Force, Health and Strength Update," Damen's update to the game Penguin3D 4.8.6b was added. It adds an exceeding amount of new concepts, but do they work? Firstly, it promises to add force and health without it being added by a powerful player.
This is his first mistake. Later on, Damen claims,
So, you do need to be given the ability to increase force and health because you need a master. There's not a lot of masters, and only one of them is an actual user that can be online. So Damen has not exactly beneficially formatted the system since there's not much variety.
Next, Damen discusses the way to obtain strength. Highly gifted force users will be weak as low force users if you don't maintain it. The same is for the health system.
One of the major questions I had about this is people who paid for powers. If they now have weaker HP, will they feel as if they got their money's worth?
On that topic, this nerfs every person in the entire game, including bots that people paid for because bots are now 1/4 of their strength. Are they now getting their money's worth? Bots cannot gain force.
A problem I also have is strength, you gain a little by doing dark, gray, and good tasks. On the contrary, you lose a ton if you're not meditating daily. 7 percent is a decent number. That's a swing from a katana every day you're not being AFK on P3D meditating or killing people. Training is twice as effective as a master's.
Now correct if I'm wrong, I wanted Accal to be my master but he said only one person can be an apprentice to a master. Making strength unobtainable since each master only gets one person to gain force. So this doesn't "promise to add force and health without it being added by a powerful player."
An extra problem is the requirements for gaining force.
For light, or normal people (since you start at the light I am not racist) you have to sit still and go to something else AFK. Or you can kill evil people.
So what I'm getting here is that you either sit down or kill. Why not make it more interesting? If we're basing this off Star Wars, be creative. Maybe training with a blue, green, or purple lightsaber increases it. So you can swing your saber around to train strength. Maybe having a double blade increases it further, since it takes more skill?
If we want to follow Star Wars, upon account creation, you should have a random force count. Since you cannot increase force potential in actual Star Wars without deep experimentation.
Gray Side having better potential in rain is fine. What grinds my gears is evil people.
Evil Side is completely disadvantageous, they have to break the community values to gain strength.
The main two methods of gaining strength are killing and spitting.
You break the rules by killing or spamming the chat to have yourself kicked.
You also gain LITTLE to NO strength doing any of this, so it seems completely on the side of the good and gray side.
An excellent addition is the PILLAR command it allows people to be added as a master, but not a lot of masters.
Lastly, the requirements to meditate are iffy.
They can only be done in a few places. I expect forest, stone isle, Ach-to, Nova Cave, Barad-Dur Council Chamber, and Waterfall Cave.
In meditation sometimes indoors is better than outdoor but all meditation rooms are random.
Outdoor is better when higher up.
6 minutes for strength seems like a long time but not the point.
Update: Moving every 1-2 minutes is also quite stupid because it sometimes just randomly stops you from meditating. I recommend something else.
How to fix some things:
1. Make gaining force potential easier, it's extremely difficult to gain when you have to murder or sit there without being murdered by evils. Evil should also have a meditation spot in Barad-Dur somewhere. Each person should also have a spitting time option. Maybe saying Curse Pythas makes your powers grow, or Hail Aule for grays.
2. Making losing force less hurtful. People are at 1/4 of their power levels than before. Make it lose maybe 1-2 percent every day.
3. Fix the PayPal issues.
4. Allow all places available for meditation, but listed places more powerful.
5. Make people not lose force on death, but strength and force potential.
6. Make the evil side better. It's super underpowered.
In my opinion, me being weaker and easier to die only makes me want to be less active, making me easier to die.
That's about it, I might edit and revise this and add more stuff but it was fun looking into this more. This was a great update, just needs some work.
This is his first mistake. Later on, Damen claims,
Damen wrote:
Firstly, to use the mechanic, you need to have a master. There are only a few masters in the game. Masters must be of the Ainur/Forest Prince race but exceptions can be made for extremely powerful Maiar (exceeding 25,000 force potential). Currently there are Accal (Light), Aule (Grey), Tulkas (Grey), Pythas (Dark) and Melody (Dark). (More will be added)
So, you do need to be given the ability to increase force and health because you need a master. There's not a lot of masters, and only one of them is an actual user that can be online. So Damen has not exactly beneficially formatted the system since there's not much variety.
Next, Damen discusses the way to obtain strength. Highly gifted force users will be weak as low force users if you don't maintain it. The same is for the health system.
One of the major questions I had about this is people who paid for powers. If they now have weaker HP, will they feel as if they got their money's worth?
On that topic, this nerfs every person in the entire game, including bots that people paid for because bots are now 1/4 of their strength. Are they now getting their money's worth? Bots cannot gain force.
A problem I also have is strength, you gain a little by doing dark, gray, and good tasks. On the contrary, you lose a ton if you're not meditating daily. 7 percent is a decent number. That's a swing from a katana every day you're not being AFK on P3D meditating or killing people. Training is twice as effective as a master's.
Now correct if I'm wrong, I wanted Accal to be my master but he said only one person can be an apprentice to a master. Making strength unobtainable since each master only gets one person to gain force. So this doesn't "promise to add force and health without it being added by a powerful player."
An extra problem is the requirements for gaining force.
For light, or normal people (since you start at the light I am not racist) you have to sit still and go to something else AFK. Or you can kill evil people.
So what I'm getting here is that you either sit down or kill. Why not make it more interesting? If we're basing this off Star Wars, be creative. Maybe training with a blue, green, or purple lightsaber increases it. So you can swing your saber around to train strength. Maybe having a double blade increases it further, since it takes more skill?
If we want to follow Star Wars, upon account creation, you should have a random force count. Since you cannot increase force potential in actual Star Wars without deep experimentation.
Gray Side having better potential in rain is fine. What grinds my gears is evil people.
Evil Side is completely disadvantageous, they have to break the community values to gain strength.
The main two methods of gaining strength are killing and spitting.
You break the rules by killing or spamming the chat to have yourself kicked.
You also gain LITTLE to NO strength doing any of this, so it seems completely on the side of the good and gray side.
An excellent addition is the PILLAR command it allows people to be added as a master, but not a lot of masters.
Lastly, the requirements to meditate are iffy.
They can only be done in a few places. I expect forest, stone isle, Ach-to, Nova Cave, Barad-Dur Council Chamber, and Waterfall Cave.
In meditation sometimes indoors is better than outdoor but all meditation rooms are random.
Outdoor is better when higher up.
6 minutes for strength seems like a long time but not the point.
Update: Moving every 1-2 minutes is also quite stupid because it sometimes just randomly stops you from meditating. I recommend something else.
How to fix some things:
1. Make gaining force potential easier, it's extremely difficult to gain when you have to murder or sit there without being murdered by evils. Evil should also have a meditation spot in Barad-Dur somewhere. Each person should also have a spitting time option. Maybe saying Curse Pythas makes your powers grow, or Hail Aule for grays.
2. Making losing force less hurtful. People are at 1/4 of their power levels than before. Make it lose maybe 1-2 percent every day.
3. Fix the PayPal issues.
4. Allow all places available for meditation, but listed places more powerful.
5. Make people not lose force on death, but strength and force potential.
6. Make the evil side better. It's super underpowered.
In my opinion, me being weaker and easier to die only makes me want to be less active, making me easier to die.
That's about it, I might edit and revise this and add more stuff but it was fun looking into this more. This was a great update, just needs some work.
Fable
Valiant
Queen of Vultures
Administrator
1,641 posts
11,587
Seen 31st August 2023
Vultures
11th October 2021, 07:22 PM
I agree with some of this. Most particularly the part about how it’s disadvantageous for evils because right now that seems like the biggest flaw.
You often have to spam spit at someone to gain any strength from it which ofc can result in getting yourself warned and kicked.
I also don’t care to have to kill people. Apparently there aren’t any lands where murder is legal right now and it’s so easy to get arrested. You don’t even need to be in the same room with the attacker to arrest them. Not that I care to kill people anyway (I’m mostly a peaceful evil unless cz is on) but what’s the point in murdering people if you’re going to chance missing out on cz because you end up spending 24 hours or more in jail for murdering so many people? You don’t gain enough strength by committing murder to really justify it.
At least good can kind of afk while meditating. Personally I’d move every 7 minutes or so and use that time to watch something or read.
It is an interesting system but some of the costs outweigh the benefits.
You often have to spam spit at someone to gain any strength from it which ofc can result in getting yourself warned and kicked.
I also don’t care to have to kill people. Apparently there aren’t any lands where murder is legal right now and it’s so easy to get arrested. You don’t even need to be in the same room with the attacker to arrest them. Not that I care to kill people anyway (I’m mostly a peaceful evil unless cz is on) but what’s the point in murdering people if you’re going to chance missing out on cz because you end up spending 24 hours or more in jail for murdering so many people? You don’t gain enough strength by committing murder to really justify it.
At least good can kind of afk while meditating. Personally I’d move every 7 minutes or so and use that time to watch something or read.
It is an interesting system but some of the costs outweigh the benefits.
Valiant
Master
790 posts
1,336
Seen 31st August 2023
Kacket
Daymen
Administrator
5,165 posts
37,117
Seen 16th December 2024
Drake
12th October 2021, 09:04 AM
It will keep getting improved to make it work well. It is hard to make it perfect out of the box, its already been hugely modified and will keep being altered to suit everyone. Users paying for extra health will have a higher health potential, earning more health per strength gained as a result. Wrath games should earn you strength as well now. Bots will need to have default strengths set to them too.
Perhaps people could also become masters, should they qualify somehow, perhaps by an event or by lore.
Perhaps people could also become masters, should they qualify somehow, perhaps by an event or by lore.
Estrella 